tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9311998.post113536761383542057..comments2024-03-27T07:47:11.168-07:00Comments on LA REVUE GAUCHE - Left Comment: State-less SocialismEUGENE PLAWIUKhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11736971647879996375noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9311998.post-31293890104596996502007-04-22T23:14:00.000-07:002007-04-22T23:14:00.000-07:00You say that you want to "deprive capitol of it's ...You say that you want to "deprive capitol of it's reward". So let us imagine we have a dirt farmer. He has a house and clothes, he digs in the ground with his hands because he has no tools. He scatters seeds which he collects from somewhere. He gathers his crops with his hands, and he grinds the grain by rubbing it on a rock (which could be called land, rather than capitol if it was sufficiently large). He decides that he wants to use a digging stick, rather than his hands, to dig. But, oh horror, were he to do so, he would be gaining from capitol: a means of production. So how does your society without a government to club him to death and confiscate his stick, prevent him from realizing his evil scheme to get his ill gotten benefits of capitol?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12394415060461643626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9311998.post-1135402062139827952005-12-23T21:27:00.000-08:002005-12-23T21:27:00.000-08:00Brad you raise an interesting point however I woul...Brad you raise an interesting point however I would say that meritocracy was based on the old skilled trades traditions and Freemasonry is an excellent example of this as well. Such associations would exist. However as Josiah Warren pointed out most 'trades' or 'craft' training could abolish the roles of apprenctice, indentured servant, and journeyman and be reduced in training time. On the other hand I could see merti based societies and fraternities such as Masonry continuing to exist, though open to all not as they are consitituted now as mens clubs.EUGENE PLAWIUKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11736971647879996375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9311998.post-1135400373513757832005-12-23T20:59:00.000-08:002005-12-23T20:59:00.000-08:00If your guild or corporation or 'free association'...<EM>If your guild or corporation or 'free association' was based on voluntary contracts then it would not be a heirarchy, since heirarchy's by their nature exist through force or coercion.</EM><BR/><BR/>I'm not sure that I entirely agree with that, as it seems to me that small, temporary and meritocratic hierarchies ought to be able to emerge naturally without coercion. I suspect they would tend to be no more than two or three layers deep and dissolve once their members found them no longer useful for a shared purpose.Brad Spanglerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05115689090782141108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9311998.post-1135394764146271932005-12-23T19:26:00.000-08:002005-12-23T19:26:00.000-08:00If your guild or corporation or 'free association'...If your guild or corporation or 'free association' was based on voluntary contracts then it would not be a heirarchy, since heirarchy's by their nature exist through force or <A HREF="http://www.noogenesis.com/malama/coercion.html" REL="nofollow">coercion.</A><BR/><BR/>So I don't think ahyone would be joining your hierarchical organization 'volunatarily' unless they were into S&M which is also consenual.<BR/><BR/>And in a society of 'freely associated producers' you would be free to organize as you please in any voluntary non coercive way. <BR/><BR/><BR/>Much like the prairie farmers during the depression who formed coops, the Wheat Board and their own insurance company; the Investors Group.<BR/><BR/>And in fact there would be no need for contracts as we would have abolished wages. Distribution would be to the mutual benefit of all, since we can even now produce an abundance of goods. If you need some 'system' to register distribution I would suggest energy credits ala technocracy, rather than price or labour credits.EUGENE PLAWIUKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11736971647879996375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9311998.post-1135388182716083132005-12-23T17:36:00.000-08:002005-12-23T17:36:00.000-08:00Your writing abilities are compelling but your pre...Your writing abilities are compelling but your premesis being wrong gurantees your faulty conclusions (rationalism is your philosophical school-- it is no coincidence you can speak French).<BR/><BR/>Entrepeneurs biggest problems are not distribution but rather "WHAT do distribute" and "how to most efficiently allocate the resourses neded to produce the chosen product". Leftism always associates production with its physical aspects (the idea that the toughest part of building the skyscraper is the placing of bricks and concrete--no doubt formidable but paling in comparison to what the original architect acheived). This linking of production to only its physical componenets is called materialism and ignores the importance of the role of mind in production. It says the most complex aspect of lightbulb is its assembly ignoring the contribution of Edison and in fact villanizing his mental efforts.<BR/><BR/>One last thought. In a free world which is compatible with capitalism you are free to arrange yourself in any social or working arrangement you choose to. This leaves you free to start communal businesses and anarchist orginizations (publications)without any fear of persecution. In your world what is my destiny? I am free as long as I want to be an interchangeable clog in your machine. As soon as i vote to vote against this conformity you will have no option other than silence me. Call me a dissenter and for the good of the people send me to the gulag. Worse what if me and a hundred others decided to quit the commune and form a company with a hierarchal structure based on voluntary contracts then what would happen? Would you allow us to live as we choose? I am powerless to determine your values in a capitalist world and yet you hope to create a world based on the premise of freedom by first inscribing mens proper values?angryroughneckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09337811619524489199noreply@blogger.com