‘Climate change is systemic and will get profoundly worse’, says former climate envoy

Jackie LongSocial Affairs Editor and Presenter 17 Sep 2024

We’re joined by Nick Bridge, the UK’s last climate envoy before the role was axed by Rishi Sunak, and new Green MP Ellie Chowns.

Jackie Long: Nick Bridge, can I come to you first. The foreign secretary today said climate is a bigger threat than terrorism and Putin, which may take some people by surprise when they look at what’s going on in Ukraine right now. Is he right?

Nick Bridge: Yes, I think he’s absolutely right. It’s systemic, it affects everybody in the world. It’s here now, but it’s going to get profoundly worse very quickly. So I think it was a very wise strategic move to set that out in what was his first keynote speech as foreign secretary.

Jackie Long: Ellie Chowns, presumably you welcome a speech that gives the sense of just how seriously this government is going to take the environment.

Ellie Chowns: Absolutely. I really welcome what David Lammy said today. You know, he’s recognised the importance of the climate crisis and the nature crisis. And this is signalling that he and the Government are taking a long term approach to thinking about these issues, not just the immediately presenting problems, but recognising that the climate and nature crises are big strategic issues that have to be grappled with and dealt with.

Jackie Long: Nick Bridge, you were also in a former life, a senior economist at the Foreign Office. Where is the money for all of this? Because we don’t get to net zero here without spending and investing money and making sure more vulnerable communities elsewhere in the world aren’t left behind, as David Lammy said today. That’s an enormous financial commitment of countries across the globe, isn’t it?

Nick Bridge: And we heard David Lammy re commit the UK’s spending, the £11.6 billion. But the key thing, I think, is to see this not as a climate finance issue, rather a sort of whole of economy issue, because what we’re trying to do now is build a clean economy that’s incredibly more healthy for people, it’s good for communities, it’s good for jobs. So there’s no reason not to do it. And it’s a much wider question of what kind of economy do we want, what kind of society do we want, what kind of environment and what kind of health do we want. And so it’s more a question of whether all of our economic investment is going into the right kinds of places, rather than talking about the relatively small amounts of money that are being discussed and to some of the climate finance funds internationally. So every country has to see this as an opportunity for a future prosperity and jobs and environment.

Jackie Long: Although Ellie Chowns, the foreign secretary said today its funding target to tackle global climate change was only an ambition. Does that make you nervous, that it’s an ambition?

Ellie Chowns: Yes, I noticed that, what appeared to be a little bit of a sliding back and I really hope that David Lammy clarified that that commitment is still there because, of course, we actually need more funding for the UK to step up and provide the level of climate finance that is needed to support the transition to clean green energy worldwide and indeed to help countries adapt to the effects of climate change that are already coming down the road we can see directly ahead of us. But I think Nick’s really right to draw attention to the fact that this framing of ‘oh dear, this is going to cost us money’ is completely the wrong way to look at this. We’ve had reports going back 20 years….

Jackie Long: But it will cost us money. That is the truth of it isn’t it?

Ellie Chowns: In the short term, investment is needed. Investment is needed for anything worth doing. But I remember Nick Stern’s report 15-20 years ago that said, the costs of not tackling climate change now will be far greater than the costs of tackling it. That still applies today and we’ve lost 20 years, so it’s urgent now to make that upfront investment because long term, that will benefit us all. And one of your people on the package before was talking about the need to invest in insulation of homes. This is absolutely critical.

And while it’s great to have a government that’s talking about investing in renewable energy, we’re not hearing nearly enough about demand side investment, energy efficiency, reducing the need for energy. That’s crucial in ensuring that everybody can live in a warm home and that we can reach our climate goals and stay within the 1.5 degree limit.

Jackie Long: But Nick Bridge, I take your point about we must have a sort of sweeping vision because of how important this is, but the money has to come from somewhere and we have heard almost daily from the Labour government about financial restraint. That there isn’t money to do the things that they would like to do. Are you concerned about that?

Nick Bridge: No. What I’m most encouraged about today is the fact that, unlike the previous government, this one has taken the chance to reset. We’ve got more than 120 countries around the world in the global south island states. And we’re saying, we’re listening and we’re hearing that this is your priority. It’s also our priority. And so the strategic reset, where we’re actually talking about the same priority and working out how to cooperate with each other is something that was missing at the back end of that government. And so that’s the key point that I think, there is a vast global economy, vast global finance system. All of that can be harnessed to much greater common good if we cooperate.

Jackie Long: Exactly on the last government, you were the most senior climate diplomat until that post was axed by the last government. I mean, what did that feel like in terms of, exactly that commitment that you say you’re hoping to see and you’re pleased to hear from the Labour Government today?

Nick Bridge: Well, it was incredibly frustrating. We had done a phenomenal job as a country to host COP26 in Glasgow. It was an absolutely critical success after the Paris Agreement, and it was very difficult then to see policies not just being focussed upon, but actually to take steps back and to sort of rein in the ambition towards net zero, make it a political football. It was very unfortunate and quite hard, I think, for many officials who’d pushed those balls up the hill.

So I think, yes, the fact that we’ve made the switch now on wind, we’ve moved from sort of maxing out oil and gas to looking at cutting those licences and investing in cleaner, cheaper, more secure resources at home. I think all these things show that we are sort of making the shift towards re accelerating and the UK has been such a great leader on this for so many years and hopefully it’s just a sign that we’re back in that position.

Jackie Long: Ellie Chowns, really quickly, if you would. That rebuilding of reputation that Nick Bridge is talking about, can we do it?

Ellie Chowns: I really hope we can. I think we need the government to sign up to the non-fossil fuel political proliferation treaty. We need the government to put their money where their mouth is in terms of investment in energy efficiency. And fundamentally, if we want to raise finance to tackle the climate crisis, then implement the polluter pays principle. Tax the oil and gas giants.