Sabri Ok: Abdullah Öcalan never compromised his stance and showed his will for a solution

Sabri Ok said that the recent developments and discussions about Abdullah Öcalan are important.


ANF
BEHDINAN
Sunday, 8 December 2024, 07:50

In the second part of this interview, Sabri Ok, member of the KCK Executive Council, spoke about the recent visit to Abdullah Öcalan in Imrali.

Part one of this interview can be read here, and part two here.

The isolation of the people's leader Abdullah Ocalan continues, and so does, accordingly, the struggle against it by the Kurdish people and their international friends. At the same time, there were discussions in Turkey about a meeting with Abdullah Öcalan. How do you evaluate the current developments in this regard?

Undoubtedly, the recent developments and discussions about Rêber Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] are important. Rêber Apo has been a hostage in Imrali for 26 years. He is always on the agenda of our movement, our people, and the Turkish state. Last year, a global campaign was developed under the leadership of the international friends of the Kurdish people for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo. That is an important campaign. Many international organizations, especially women, youth, and non-governmental organizations, but also politicians and academics, participate in this movement. From Asia to America, from Europe to the Middle East, women all over the world stand up for it and develop it gradually. Neither we, our people, nor our international friends will accept the current situation. The aim of this global campaign is to ensure the physical freedom of Rêber Apo. All struggle and efforts are based on this and won’t end as long as this situation prolongs.

As it is known, Ömer Öcalan was able to meet Rêber Apo a few weeks ago. In this meeting, Rêber Apo said that the isolation continues, and he also said that he has the theoretical and practical power to move the process from the grounds of conflict and violence to the legal and political grounds if the conditions arise. We and our people are aware of the isolation that Rêber Apo is in. Our duty is to wage a more radical, more organized, and wider struggle to break it. Not only for the lifting of the isolation but also for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo. Rêber Apo has been under severe isolation and oppression in Imrali for 26 years. One can only guess what is happening in Imrali. We understand from the statements of Bahceli and Erdogan that there is a great struggle regarding Imrali. Bahceli stated that the DEM Party delegation should go and see Rêber Apo as soon as possible. He had already previously said that Rêber Apo should come to the parliament and speak there. It is hard to tell what their true intention is, but what is known is that there is a great pressure against Rêber Apo and that he is fighting against it. Whatever the Turkish state was aiming for, they failed to achieve it; their calculations did not work.

The Turkish state, particularly the AKP-MHP, is showing great hypocrisy regarding the Kurdish question. They are not honest and still are trying to mock people’s minds; they want to change the agenda, deceive society, and manipulate. Whatever their calculations, they have realized that without Rêber Apo, the democratization of Turkey and the solution of the Kurdish question are not possible. We always say that Rêber Apo is the address for a solution, and now the Turkish state has also had to accept this reality. They have realized that nothing can be achieved without Rêber Apo. They are now stuck. They calculated that they would destroy the guerrilla, subjugate the society, the PKK would become isolated, and then they would achieve their goals and solve the Kurdish question in their own way. But their calculations didn’t add up. The guerrilla is still standing, resisting with great heroism. On this occasion, I salute all the friends who are currently resisting in the war tunnels and at the front and wish them success. The Turkish state cannot achieve results against this will, against this resistance. And that although they use all their means. They trample on international law and the laws of war; they use the collaboration of the KDP, and NATO always supports them. They use the most advanced technology against us, but the result is clearly visible to everyone. Their calculations do not work, and they cannot achieve results.

Many developments are taking place in the Middle East; new processes are developing. If the Turkish state insists on the same way, it will reach the same result. That’s why they started a search. For four years they have been imposing a heavy isolation and great pressure on Rêber Apo in Imrali. Rêber Apo never compromised his stance and showed that he had the will for a solution. So, the Turkish state got trapped in a dead end there too and failed to get results. When their neo-Ottoman calculations regarding the Middle East failed, this time they became scared and started looking for different ways. They made calculations to manipulate the PKK, to play on internal problems, if possible, to separate Rêber Apo from the PKK, and to confuse the Kurdish politics on a legal level. In this way, they wanted to find a way and achieve their goals. The process is still going on in this way.

Rêber Apo expressed that he has the theoretical and practical power to move this process from the ground of conflict and violence to the legal and political ground. But the Turkish state is just talking and does not take a step and still does not take responsibility. This is also evident in their speeches. Every day its academics and advisors say that there are no Kurds, that there just is the Turkish nation. Would it be okay if I used the same rhetoric and said, “There are no Turks; they are Arabs or they are English”? That makes about as much sense as saying that there are no Kurds or that Kurds are Turks. Kurds are Kurds, and Turks are Turks. There is no point in being ashamed of this, and there is also no reason to consider themselves superior to other nations. But the Turkish state still says there are no Kurds, there is no Kurdish question, there is a terrorist problem. They say no to federation, autonomy, and education in mother tongue. There is denial and rejection of the Kurdish people. With such a mentality, no solution can develop.

They are probably calculating that they still can deceive the Kurds, change the agenda, and develop a dystopia among the Kurds. But they must realize that they have not been able to achieve results with these dirty policies over the last centuries. They have to accept the Kurdish reality. The solution of the Kurdish question means the democratization of Turkey. Our people say that the recent developments in Turkey are a game they play. The Turkish state should openly express what is needed to solve the Kurdish question. If they are honest, if they really want to solve the question, then Rêber Apo has to be physically free and take part in this process. Our people say this and do not compromise on their struggle. On the one hand, the Turkish regime talks about a solution and says that Rêber Apo should come and speak in the parliament; on the other hand, it usurps the will of the Kurdish people by implementing trustees every day. The DEM Party won the municipality of Elih (tr. Batman), which has the highest count of votes in all of Turkey and Kurdistan, but still a trustee was installed, and they still call it democracy.

The Kurdish people see this, and for them it is not possible to digest and accept this. This approach is not about solving the Kurdish question but rejecting it. It is the mentality of denying the Kurdish people and insisting on war. If they would be serious and honest, Rêber Apo would always be ready; our movement and our people are ready for a solution. Recently the information leaked that the Turkish state has spent 3 trillion dollars since the beginning of the war. This is enough budget for a whole country. If the economy of the Turks has collapsed today, if people are poor and hungry, the main reason for this is the war against the Kurdish people. But Turkish trade unions and Turkish politicians do not talk about this. This war has upset the life, future, psychology, and politics of Turkish society. The Turkish state is blocked not only inside but also outside; they have been disgraced. No matter how much they say they will expand everywhere in the Middle East with their neo-Ottoman mindset, they are hitting dead ends wherever they go. They have no choice; either they accept and solve the Kurdish question, or they will lose everything.

The Turkish state is trying to cover up how its war against the freedom guerrilla of Kurdistan is going on. For example, in July the Turkish state has only publicly announced the deaths of five of its soldiers. One of them died in Somalia, one in Syria, and three in the operation they call ‘Claw Lock’. But most recently, the head of the Zafer Party, Umit Ozdag, admitted the truth and said that 44 soldiers died in July only in the area of the so-called ‘Claw Lock’ operation. How do you evaluate this situation?

One of the main pillars of the special war that has been waged against us, against our people, for 50 years is lies and manipulation. The Turkish state never reveals the truth. The HPG announces its martyrs. The HPG says announces when a friend of ours was martyred, and mostly a few days later the Turkish state makes a statement saying that they murdered that friend. It never shows its own casualties and deaths accurately. It has prepared many of its personnel accordingly. They also make them sign agreements; they tell the families that if their son dies, the state has the right not to disclose it. They have created a legal basis for themselves. If one looks at the statements they make, if one looks at the number of guerrillas they have allegedly murdered in the last four years, one could almost think that the guerrillas are a huge army consisting of hundreds of thousands of fighters, which is obviously not the case. They are simply lying.

A massive war is being waged. They are attacking using the most advanced technology. They are waging an unlawful war in which chemical weapons are used, and against all these attacks, our friends are resisting 24/7. Of course, we also give martyrs, we do not deny this, as I said, the YJA Star, HPG publishes their identities. But the Turkish state has built everything on lies, and the bad thing is that the society is not aware of this, or they do not realize it often. Especially the society in Turkey, the Kurdish people are of course a more political people; they know the war, but the society in Turkey is not very aware of the realities. Turkish politicians, all politicians in general, should tell the Turkish society about the reality of the war. Three trillion dollars were spent in this war; they could have built Turkey twice with this money. There would be no poverty, unemployment, or hunger in Turkey. Turkey would have been democratized. But the Turkish state will never admit that they spent three trillion dollars on the war. They don’t want the society to understand this because the society will act accordingly and criticize. That’s why they don’t want the public to know. Even someone like Umit Ozdag gets desperate and confesses, and what he says is not exactly true, but it is close to the truth. They cannot hide it anymore. Even a fascist like Umit Ozdag, who is nothing less than Bahceli, has no tolerance left against AKP-MHP. He gets desperate and announces how many people have died. This reveals the state they are in. Suleyman Soylu was saying that they know everything about the guerrilla, even the size of their shoes. Again they were saying they would end the struggle of the guerrilla within four months; another one was saying that we will bring them to their end next year, but our struggle has revealed that no matter which state, which government, or which power, if they do not approach the Kurdish question seriously, if they do not produce a solution, they themselves will perish.

Since the beginning of this war, dozens of General Staffs, dozens of Prime Ministers, dozens of Presidents, dozens of security and intelligence officers have come and gone, but the PKK is still standing. This is the dialectic. We say that we started from scratch, and this is the truth. Rêber Apo started from scratch. Of course the Kurdish people had a legacy of resistance; there are honorable leaders like Sheikh Said, Seyit Riza, etc. in our history, but the Turkish state attacked the Kurdish people in such a brutal way that the Kurds had nothing left. Rêber Apo started from scratch, based on the truth and reached millions. The 46th anniversary of the founding of the PKK was celebrated by millions of people all over the world. We are openly saying the reality of the war, what the situation is. Our movement gives people confidence, but the Turkish state is not like that, they lie to each other, they lie to their society, they lie to everyone and these lies are exposed every day. They cannot hide it anymore.