WE SPY WITH FIVE EYES
Story by Alex Boutilier • GLOBAL NEWS
David Vigneault, Director of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS), prepares to appear before the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs on Parliament Hill in Ottawa, on Tuesday, June 13, 2023.© JDT
Canada’s domestic spy agency warned a Canadian company that it was unwittingly supplying drone technology that Russia has used against Ukraine.
In 2022, a Kyiv-based think tank reported that Canadian-made components from a company called Tallysman Wireless were found in Iranian drones shot down by Ukrainian defence forces.
Speaking at a public meeting of Five Eyes spy chiefs at Stanford University in California, Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) director David Vigneault said he had a “very difficult” conversation with a Canadian company supplying drone parts for Russia’s war efforts.
“We essentially were able to show that person that we had discovered … that some components of high-tech guidance (technology) had been used in Russian drones to kill Ukrainians absolutely unbeknownst to that business leader,” Vigneault said.
“That engagement, us taking that information, finding the right way to have classified information to share with those individuals, a tangible example like that goes a long way.”
Vigneault said it was an example of how CSIS has increasingly been working with private sector companies and universities to counter attempts by other nations to steal cutting-edge technology and research.
In a statement, a CSIS spokesperson said Vigneault was referring to Iranian-made Shahed-136 drones “used by Russia against Ukrainian civilians” and which included Canadian components.
In recent years, CSIS has dramatically stepped up its outreach to Canadian businesses and research universities over concerns about hostile states stealing intellectual property and trade secrets. Vigneault gave a rare public speech in 2018 to the Economic Club of Canada, where he called foreign interference and espionage the “greatest threat” to Canada’s “prosperity and national interest.”
CSIS accelerated these efforts during the COVID-19 pandemic, when Canada’s spy agencies repeatedly warned that hostile nations were attempting to hijack vaccine research and disrupt already-shaken supply chains.
Vigneault said the agency has been hampered by the “stigma” attached to what Western intelligence agencies have done since the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks in the U.S.
“After 9/11, you know, there are a number of practices that have been put in place in each of our organizations that may not” have stood the test of time, Vigneault said.
“But we need to overcome that.”
The Stanford event on Tuesday brought together the domestic intelligence heads of Five Eyes countries — the United States, United Kingdom, Canada, Australia and New Zealand — to discuss the challenges of emerging technologies like artificial intelligence on national security. It’s extremely rare for all five countries’ spymasters to gather for a public discussion.
Unsurprisingly, the People’s Republic of China loomed large in the discussion.
“(This) unprecedented meeting is because we’re dealing with … (an) unprecedented threat,” said Christopher Wray, the director of the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), who convened the Five Eyes meeting.
“There is no greater threat to innovation than the Chinese government. And it is a measure of how seriously the five of us and our services take that threat that we have chosen to come together to try to highlight that, raise awareness, raise resilience and work closely with the private sector to try to build better protections for innovation, especially in a place like Northern California, but really across all five of our countries.”
“Five or six years ago … every analyst would continue to say that, you know, investment in China was absolutely the way to go,” Vigneault said.
“You would go to Bay Street or Wall Street, you know, and that was the thing to do when we would come from the intelligence community and say, well, wait a second, there is this aspect (of Chinese investment).”
Vigneault spoke sparingly during the hour-long panel discussion on the challenges of emerging technology in national security. But the CSIS director also noted cultural difficulties in getting his agency to “think differently.”
“The question is, you know, how can we legally (and) safely operate with these technologies in our environment, with the oversight we have and so on. But that cultural reticence from our organization is something we need to break,” Vigneault said.
“The fact that we have top secret clearances, that we operate in the environment we’re very comfortable with … Breaking down these silos is one of the most important aspects that we can do, and that’s why we’re here."
CSIS chief opens up about China's interest in Canadian universities
Story by Catharine Tunney •13h
The head of Canada's intelligence agency spoke openly about China's interest in partnering with Canadian universities to gain a military edge during a conference with his Five Eyes counterparts on Tuesday.
"China has been very transparent," Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) Director David Vigneault said.
"Everything that they're doing in our universities and in new technology, it's going back into a system very organized to create dual-use applications for the military."
Vigneault made the comments on stage during a rare public gathering with spy bosses from the U.S., the U.K., Australia and New Zealand.
The representatives of the Five Eyes intelligence-sharing alliance are meeting in California's Silicon Valley at the invitation of FBI Director Christopher Wray to discuss adversaries' use of technology and threats to innovation and research.
Vigneault said CSIS has been trying to warn Canadian universities about the People's Republic of China's motivations and is in the process of setting up a research security centre to provide advice directly to research institutions.
"We're not telling people who they should hire or not hire. But we tell them ... if you're working for one of those seven universities in the PRC associated with the People's Liberation Army, you know it's probably not a good idea if you're working in cutting-edge technology in the university," said Vigneault.
According to the Hoover Institution, which hosted Tuesday's event, a cluster of institutions in China, often referred to as the "Seven Sons of National Defence," collaborate with universities around the world to harvest research and divert it to military applications.
Vigneault said CSIS supports Canadian universities being able to attract talent from around the world, including China.
"But you also need to understand that, unfortunately, the rules of engagement, the rules of the games have changed," he said.
"They've been so bold about what they're doing, how they have been stealing intellectual property, how they have interfered in our democratic processes, how they have been engaging on campuses, of all places to interfere."
IP theft 'unprecedented'
Earlier this year, The Globe and Mail reported that 50 Canadian universities have collaborated for years with a Chinese military research university.
Since 2005, those institutions have published more than 240 joint papers with Chinese military scientists on such topics as quantum cryptography, photonics and space science, said the newspaper.
The head of Canada's spy agency says President Xi Jinping of China is transparent about wanting to use Canadian research. (Lauren DeCicca/Getty Images)© Provided by cbc.ca
In February the Liberal government announced it would ban all federal research grants for projects linked to "foreign state actors" that pose a threat to Canada's national security — and urged provinces and universities to follow suit.
Mike Burgess, head of the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation, bluntly told the audience that "all nations spy."
"All nations seek secrets and all nations seek strategic advantage. But the behaviour we're talking about here goes well beyond traditional espionage," he told the conference.
"And the threat is that we have the Chinese government engaged in the most sustained, scaled and sophisticated theft of intellectual property and acquisition of expertise that is unprecedented in human history. And that's why we're together."
'It's not enough to cry wolf'
During an exchange moderated by former U.S. secretary of state Condoleezza Rice, Vigneault also spoke of trying to engage with the Canadian business community on threats.
Recently, leaders in Canada's business community have been demanding that the intelligence service be given the power to share intelligence with companies being targeted for economic espionage.
Earlier this month, the Business Council of Canada, made up of chief executives and entrepreneurs in the country's major companies, called on Ottawa to update the CSIS Act so that private firms targeted by foreign interference actually know they're in danger.
"We need to go out of our way to give concrete examples," Vigneault acknowledged. "Because it's not enough to cry wolf."
Business Council of Canada president Goldy Hyder joined the Canadian delegation at the conference. He said Canadian businesses are more than ready to work with government to protect national security.
"In an era of renewed geopolitical rivalry, when a country's ability to continuously push the boundaries of science and technology is the foundation upon which military, economic, and cultural power now rests, deep and sustained partnerships between the private and public sectors are necessary to protect our citizens and our prosperity," he said in a post on social media.
A spokesperson for Public Safety Minister LeBlanc recently said the federal government is looking at improving information sharing but wouldn't commit to a timeline.
The Five Eyes intelligence service leaders are taking questions from reporters later tonight.
Story by Catharine Tunney •13h
The head of Canada's intelligence agency spoke openly about China's interest in partnering with Canadian universities to gain a military edge during a conference with his Five Eyes counterparts on Tuesday.
"China has been very transparent," Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) Director David Vigneault said.
"Everything that they're doing in our universities and in new technology, it's going back into a system very organized to create dual-use applications for the military."
Vigneault made the comments on stage during a rare public gathering with spy bosses from the U.S., the U.K., Australia and New Zealand.
The representatives of the Five Eyes intelligence-sharing alliance are meeting in California's Silicon Valley at the invitation of FBI Director Christopher Wray to discuss adversaries' use of technology and threats to innovation and research.
Vigneault said CSIS has been trying to warn Canadian universities about the People's Republic of China's motivations and is in the process of setting up a research security centre to provide advice directly to research institutions.
"We're not telling people who they should hire or not hire. But we tell them ... if you're working for one of those seven universities in the PRC associated with the People's Liberation Army, you know it's probably not a good idea if you're working in cutting-edge technology in the university," said Vigneault.
According to the Hoover Institution, which hosted Tuesday's event, a cluster of institutions in China, often referred to as the "Seven Sons of National Defence," collaborate with universities around the world to harvest research and divert it to military applications.
Vigneault said CSIS supports Canadian universities being able to attract talent from around the world, including China.
"But you also need to understand that, unfortunately, the rules of engagement, the rules of the games have changed," he said.
"They've been so bold about what they're doing, how they have been stealing intellectual property, how they have interfered in our democratic processes, how they have been engaging on campuses, of all places to interfere."
IP theft 'unprecedented'
Earlier this year, The Globe and Mail reported that 50 Canadian universities have collaborated for years with a Chinese military research university.
Since 2005, those institutions have published more than 240 joint papers with Chinese military scientists on such topics as quantum cryptography, photonics and space science, said the newspaper.
The head of Canada's spy agency says President Xi Jinping of China is transparent about wanting to use Canadian research. (Lauren DeCicca/Getty Images)© Provided by cbc.ca
In February the Liberal government announced it would ban all federal research grants for projects linked to "foreign state actors" that pose a threat to Canada's national security — and urged provinces and universities to follow suit.
Mike Burgess, head of the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation, bluntly told the audience that "all nations spy."
"All nations seek secrets and all nations seek strategic advantage. But the behaviour we're talking about here goes well beyond traditional espionage," he told the conference.
"And the threat is that we have the Chinese government engaged in the most sustained, scaled and sophisticated theft of intellectual property and acquisition of expertise that is unprecedented in human history. And that's why we're together."
'It's not enough to cry wolf'
During an exchange moderated by former U.S. secretary of state Condoleezza Rice, Vigneault also spoke of trying to engage with the Canadian business community on threats.
Recently, leaders in Canada's business community have been demanding that the intelligence service be given the power to share intelligence with companies being targeted for economic espionage.
Earlier this month, the Business Council of Canada, made up of chief executives and entrepreneurs in the country's major companies, called on Ottawa to update the CSIS Act so that private firms targeted by foreign interference actually know they're in danger.
"We need to go out of our way to give concrete examples," Vigneault acknowledged. "Because it's not enough to cry wolf."
Business Council of Canada president Goldy Hyder joined the Canadian delegation at the conference. He said Canadian businesses are more than ready to work with government to protect national security.
"In an era of renewed geopolitical rivalry, when a country's ability to continuously push the boundaries of science and technology is the foundation upon which military, economic, and cultural power now rests, deep and sustained partnerships between the private and public sectors are necessary to protect our citizens and our prosperity," he said in a post on social media.
A spokesperson for Public Safety Minister LeBlanc recently said the federal government is looking at improving information sharing but wouldn't commit to a timeline.
The Five Eyes intelligence service leaders are taking questions from reporters later tonight.
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