Climate scientist Maisa Rojas: ‘I have a mandate to be part of Chile’s first ecological, feminist government’

Chile’s new environment minister on reconciling green goals and the realities of government, and why she wants her developing country to be a global climate pioneer


Jonathan Watts
@jonathanwatts
Sat 8 Jul 2023 

The Observer
Climate crisis

Interview

Last year, the renowned climate scientist Maisa Rojas, 50, left her academic comfort zone and took the post of Chilean environment minister in the progressive leftwing government of Gabriel Boric. The physics associate professor with an Oxford doctorate was one of many bold appointments in a cabinet that promised to promote ecological and feminist values, social justice and devolution. With Chile suffering prolonged fires, droughts and heatwaves, she has helped the country pass a climate law and a nature law to protect biodiversity.

You are one of the leading scientists in Chile. Why did you enter politics? Is it true that you got involved after the first round of the presidential election, when it seemed that a conservative climate denier, José Antonio Kast, might take power?

Yes, that definitely was a big part of it. I really, really felt that in this critical decade, when climate actions need to be an urgent priority, we could not afford to have a climate denier as president of our country.

From your experience of the past year, do you think it would be a good idea to have more highly qualified scientists in government positions?
I asked the same question when I was appointed. Of course I hope to make a difference, but there is no guarantee because you have to understand that in politics, you don’t only take decisions based on evidence and science. You need a lot of other abilities, not just understanding the main subjects. You have to figure out a much more complex ecosystem. I am still figuring it out.

If we did not have so many social inequalities, we would not have the same level of environmental degradation

After a year’s experience on the inside, do you feel government institutions – most of which were established in the very different climate of the 19th and 20th centuries – are equipped to deal with the scale of the emergency we face?

They are not. That is one of the big challenges. I have had to make that very clear. In the case of Chile, we have had, since last year, a climate change law. It is a framework law that has two objectives: carbon neutrality at the latest by 2050 and building resilience against the worst effects of climate change. This involved 17 of our 24 ministries, so I can tell you it will be quite a challenge to implement this because it requires coordination and tranversation of this subject across the whole of government.

This morning, I was at a meeting between the ministry of energy and the ministry of transport, where they were telling the OECD [Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development] how the law was being implemented. What they have realised is that they must put a climate change lens on everything they do. That requires new laws because the old ones have contradictions. It is fascinating to see how this is going, and quite exciting.

Your appointment as minister appears to be tied up with a generational and gender change that is happening in Chile and many other countries. How is that linked to the rise in environmental consciousness?

I am not so young any more, but about the gender part, I think they are quite interrelated because in my view the climate crisis, the loss of biodiversity crisis and the pollution crisis are ultimately a relationship crisis. It is the result of a bad relationship with nature, but also among ourselves, that has been propelled by social inequalities. If our world did not have these social inequalities, I am sure we would not have the same level of environmental degradation because no one who has access to education, to money, to power would accept to live in an area that was so degraded.

That is true in the world as a whole, between the global north and the global south. And it is true inside society. Gender inequality is one of the most obvious inequalities we have. In western societies, caring is done by women at home who look after children, the elderly, etc. What we need is a society that takes more care. What is the easiest way to do that? Bring women into public life.

Inside the government, how powerful is the environment ministry? In many countries, the environment minister is little more than a decoration used to greenwash the administration. Do you have the power you need to make the changes that are required?
I have a mandate to be part of the first ecological, feminist government of Chile, and to pursue a just transition and decentralisation. Those were our four campaign promises. We must put content in how to materialise an ecological government, how to change the model of development from something that is destructive and based on raw materials. I think I play an important role in that. I sit at the table for national strategy. I have the climate change law, which aims for net zero by 2050.

Maisa Rojas speaking at the Cop27 climate summit in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt, November 2022. Photograph: Peter Dejong/AP

This ministry plays an important role in making sure the energy transition occurs. I also take care of biodiversity and have to ensure that our climate solutions do not deepen the biodiversity crisis. This ministry started in 2010 so it is relatively new. I want to leave this ministry stronger and pave the road for these transitions with a strong basis so they cannot be overthrown by whoever follows us in government. I have the backing of the president for that.

Chile’s economy has long depended on mining. How do you change that extractive mindset and balance it with the needs of biodiversity? I guess there must be times when the president says to you: “Go easy on that, we need the money”?

Yes, that is the most complicated part. That is where things become muddy. These are really the tough questions. To demonstrate that we can do both – develop the economy while taking care of our environment – at the necessary velocity. That is really the challenge.

In the case of mining, we need a common understanding of what needs to be done. We have had conversations about sustainable mining and green mining. And I have said I prefer not to talk in those terms, which sound like greenwashing because mining is never sustainable. We need to talk about responsible mining. We know mining has important, irreversible impacts on nature. We need a broad agreement about what impacts we are willing to take – and to be responsible about that.

You have said Chile can be a climate leader. How? Many countries have made net zero targets. What can you do in concrete terms that sets an example for others and puts us on the path for a better world?

There are a lot of pledges to be net zero by 2050, but not many countries are actually doing that. Before I leave I’d like to see the transition in what is left of this decade. That is when the challenges are. It is my firm conviction that if Chile really wants to be a developed country and to improve the wellbeing of our people then we must be the first to do the green transition and not the last.

Many developing countries say they need more time, that they don’t have the capacity, that they want to develop first. I think that is wrong. We improve the lives of our citizens if we are first. Otherwise, we will just have tons of stranded assets that will hold back development for a long time. A just transition will have many benefits – cleaner cities, longer life expectancy, better air, better soil, decontaminated rivers and more beauty. That is why we must do this as quick as we can. We still need help. But if a small developing country like Chile can do this, it will be an important example to many other countries.