Fox Vs. Paul

More evidence that the neo-con establishment hates Ron Paul. In this case Fox News is not inviting Paul to their Republican debate Sunday night. Dumb move. But what do you expect from the channel that hates Paul the most.So much for fair or balanced.

Online protests seek to include Ron Paul in NH debate
An online protest is growing over presidential candidate Ron Paul's exclusion from a Fox News debate here on Sunday, even though other Republicans receiving fewer votes in Iowa or scoring lower in the polls were invited.

Paul received a fifth-place 10 percent of the GOP vote in Iowa's caucus Thursday, ahead of Rudy Giuliani, who received 3.5 percent. He's also ahead of Fred Thompson in New Hampshire polls, polling 7 percent to Thompson's 2 percent.

But both Giuliani and Thompson still appear to be invited to Sunday evening's debate sponsored by Fox News and the New Hampshire Republican Party. Paul isn't.

That's irked many Paul supporters, who responded by flooding a Fox News Web page on the debate with over 580 comments and creating a "Protest Fox" Web site. It says: "We need to send a message to Fox's Rupert Murdoch & his fellow Neocon buddies that he is not Musharraf and the US is not Pakistan, yet! Fox News cannot just stifle public opinion. debate and impact a primary election by excluding Ron Paul just because they don't like his message of freedom and liberty."

They're also planning protests outside Fox News affiliates. Another likely protest site is Saint Anselm College in Manchester, N.H., which has given Fox News space for a broadcast studio. That's where Sunday's debate will take place.

So why the exclusion? It's hard to say, and Fox News hasn't exactly been forthcoming on this point.

For his part, Paul said he thinks it's because he--alone among Republican candidates--opposes the war in Iraq. After being excluded, Paul explained that he views Fox News as a "propagandist" for the war with editorial views that are hardly in keeping with traditional conservative limited-government principles, according to a story by the Boston Globe.

Adding to the intrigue is that the New Hampshire Republican Party, which is co-sponsoring the debate and presumably has some say in who's invited, published a statement this week saying the media should not be in the "business of excluding serious candidates and talks were continuing with Fox."

And adding to the insult, at least for Paul supporters, is that ABC News is sponsoring a debate at the same place--Saint Anselm College--the evening before. Unlike the Fox News debate on Sunday, however, Ron Paul will be invited to participate.

Of course Fox neo-con commentators just hate Ron Paul.

SEAN HANNITY UPSET ABOUT RON PAUL WINNING DEBATE POLL

While Fox is the voice of America's War,

Ron Paul and Bill O'Reilly Duke It Out (09/10/07)



Fox Chatheads Aghast at Ron Paul's Appeal




Ron Paul is the voice of America's Troops. The folks fighting the neo-cons war for them. Paul can say he supports the troops while calling for their withdrawal from Bush's war.

New Spot: "Troops Support Ron Paul"

Republican Ron Paul is out with a new TV ad, set to run in New Hampshire through Tuesday's primary, stressing his military credentials.

Patriotic music booms. Soldiers salute. The announcer begins: "A proud military veteran who served our nation. Ron Paul salutes and supports our troops who protect and defend our freedom." A flag waves. The announcer continues, "But who do the troops support? Ron Paul. The record shows they're standing up for him." The ad concludes: "Ron Paul is their choice for commander-in-chief."

His campaign spokesman Jesse Benton said Paul "has long been a praised as staunch advocate for veterans' issues." Still, he "wants to bring the troops home from Iraq" because he would rather America "never again sends out brave soldiers to war unless doing so is necessary for our defense," according to Benton. Whether his anti-war message will appeal to New Hampshire veterans is hard to say.

While being dissed by the Republican establishment and its neo-con media flacks the real libertarian base of the pre-Reagan Republicans comes out in favour of Paul.

Congressman Ron Paul will be joined in the last days of the New
Hampshire campaign by former Congressman and conservative stalwart
Barry Goldwater, Jr.

"We are truly honored to have this legendary conservative family
here to support Dr. Paul and bring his message to New Hampshire
voters," said Jared Chicoine, NH State Coordinator. "A Goldwater
endorsement sends an unmistakable message about what Ron Paul really
means to the Republican Party."

Son of the late conservative senator from Arizona, Mr. Goldwater
himself served six terms in the U.S. House of Representatives.
Carrying on his father's legacy of fighting for small government and
individual liberty, the former Congressman endorsed Ron Paul for
President in November of 2007.

New Hampshire is going to be another win for Paul but will the media finally take notice? Only if he succeeds in coming in fourth again and burying both Thomspon and Guilliani once and for all. And his chances are very good in this most libertarian of all states.

Rasmussen: Ron Paul Soars to 14% in NH

And while most polls indicate a slug fest between former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney and Arizona's U.S. Senator John McCain on the Republican side of the fight, another Republican has been waiting behind the curtain for some time now: Texas Congressman Ron Paul.

Paul has endeared himself to legions of supporters with his grandfatherly conviction and steady, libertarian-style message against the Iraq War, for downsizing goverment with lower taxes, and against the erosion of Constitutional rights. Paul's voters are enthusiastic and oftentimes angry. But they have purpose to their anger, fueled as it is by the outrage of seeing America drift ever closer to a socialist "Nanny State."


Tuesday. If Paul can come into the first tier of candidates, say at least fourth or third, his campaign picks up new legitimacy as he will be introduced to America by the mainstream press.

What many traditional Republicans miss is that Ron Paul, like him or not, truly helps show America that the Republican Party is not all lockstep behind the Bush/Cheney Administration when it comes to foreign invasions and domestic surveillance. Since Bush's approval ratings have been in the deep cellar for two years now, having Ron Paul handy to make articulate arguments on liberty and a more prudent foreign policy shows a Republican Party that acknowledges its mistakes.

And even the liberals like him which just further pisses off Fox.

Ron Paul is Bill Maher's New Hero



And he even has support of an anarchist or two....



SEE:

Winds of Change

Huckabee: Paul is Dead

Republican Presidential Paul-itics

Ron Paul and Barry Goldwater

Ron Paul

Death Of Laissez-Faire Politics

Libertarians for U.S. President

Ron Paul Quotes Ayn Rand

Gravel and Paul on PBS

Tags;
libertarian, Republican, Barry Goldwater US, Ronald Reaganelections, politics, right wing, conservative, Mr.Conservative, Reagan, social-conservatives, US Presidential race, Ron Paul,

Proletarian Doctors Redux

Bethune led the way. And Canada quietly has produced a model for creating doctors faster than the monopoly guild that is the College of Physicians and Surgeons would like to admit to.

As I have pointed out here before the way to create more doctors and reform the medicare system is to break the haughty power of the monopoly the doctors guild has on its profession. And it appears that such a possibility has been in place for forty years but nobody bothered to admit it existed.

Add to this a program of nurse practitioners, free tuition and a commitment to work in rural areas, as well as community based health clinics with doctors on salary we would well be on our way to ending the health care crisis. And it would cost far less than any other reform.

Canada could produce a lot more doctors at a lower cost, and medical students would save thousands in tuition if most of its medical schools moved to a three-year program, the Canadian Medical Association Journal suggests.

Such three-year programs have existed for decades at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ont., and at the University of Calgary.

Dr. Paul Hébert, editor-in-chief of the Canadian Medical Association Journal and a professor of medicine at the University of Ottawa, wants to know how they measure up against the four-year programs at the rest of the country's medical schools.

"We've had a 40-year experiment go on, and no one's looked at that data as far as I know in a very cogent and detailed manner," he told CBC Radio's Ottawa Morning Friday, the same week he published an editorial titled "Is it time for another medical curriculum revolution?" in the bi-weekly journal.

Dr. Norman Bethune, assisted by Henning Sorensen, performing a transfusion during the Spanish Civil War

Norman Bethune (1890-1939) was a Canadian thoracic surgeon. During the 1930s he became a convinced communist, and this led him to Spain, where he joined the anti-Fascist struggle. On the Spanish battle fields he became aware that 75% of serious battle casualties would survive if operated on immediately. In early 1938, he arrived in China, and proceeded to Yan'an, the revolutionary base area of the Chinese Communist Party. Mao Zedong commissioned him to organize a mobile operating unit in the interior of North China. Although he was forced to work under extreme circumstances, sometimes operating for forty hours straight without sleep, and within minutes of the front lines, he saved the lives of many Chinese party members and soldiers. He died of septicemia, contracted when he cut himself while operating under great pressure from advancing Japanese forces.

Norman Bethune (1890-1939)

• born in Gravenhurst, Ontario
• served as a stretcher bearer in a field ambulance unit of the Canadian army in France in 1915
• a bout of tuberculosis inspired his interest in thoracic surgery
• joined the surgical team at Montreal's Royal Victoria Hospital
• produced over a dozen new surgical instruments
• became disillusioned with medical practice because often patients who were saved by surgery became sick again when they returned to squalid living conditions
• visited the Soviet Union, and secretly joined the communist party in 1935
• opened a health clinic for the unemployed
• promoted reform of the health care system
• fought the fascists in Spain in 1936
• in Madrid he organized the first mobile blood-transfusion unit
• in 1938 he went to aid the Chinese against the Japanese invasion
• in China he formed the first mobile medical unit, which could be carried on two mules
• died of an infection due to the lack of penicillin, the infection ocurred during surgery due to a lack of surgical gloves
• Bethune is regarded as a martyr in China and is referred to as "Pai-ch'iu-en" which means "white weeks grace"
• next to his tomb in China there is a statue, a pavillion, a museum, and a hospital dedicated to him
• the family home in Gravenhurst is now a museum
• played by Donald Sutherland in the biographical film: "Bethune: Making of a Hero"
• biography: The Scalpel, The Sword by Ted Allen and Sydney Gordon
• for more information see Canada firsts (1992) by Ralph Nader, Nadia Milleron, and Duff Conacher

History of the Norman Bethune Tapestry by William C. Gibson, MD, DPhil

One day when I had just arrived back in Vancouver from World Health Organization meetings in Geneva I dropped in to see H.R. MacMillan at his home. As usual he began: "What is the best thing you saw while away?" I told him of a very fine tapestry which was in a travelling exhibition, showing Norman Bethune in the Chinese countryside. "Find it," he said. After months of correspondence with Chinese and Geneva sources, I had to report failure. So H.R. said: "Get one made in China and send me the bill." So I sent off to Shanghai a colour photo to be reproduced, giving the approximate size which we could accommodate. Six months later the Bethune tapestry arrived, almost buried in mothballs! We placed it in the Sherrington Room, where many came to study it.* The setting depicts a former Buddhist temple, which Bethune had converted to his operating room for the Eighth Route Army in Hopei Province in the north. Bethune had sailed on a CPR Empress liner from Vancouver soon after Japan attacked China, because he was at that time in Salmon Arm, B.C. on a fundraising mission for his blood transfusion service in the Spanish Civil War. On hearing of the invasion of China, he gave up his efforts for Spain, where he had done yeoman service for the legal government of Spain despite the Department of External Affairs in Ottawa, which threw no end of roadblocks in his way. With a Canadian nurse he set off for China, accompanied, alas, by an American Red Cross surgeon who turned out to be a chronic alcoholic (as I believe he had been in Newfoundland). In 18 months Bethune became a legend. After his death at age 49 of an infected finger, cut while operating, Mao wrote a eulogy which was memorized by every schoolchild in China. When I first visited China in 1973, with the Bethune Foundation, every stop we made was highlighted by children reciting it. * One visitor was Dr. Wong, who was Bethune's anesthetist, shown in the tapestry. Bethune is doing a rib resection to get at a lung damaged by a bullet. You can see him bending over the wedged-open chest of the soldier.

SEE:

Proletarian Doctors

Socialized Medicine Began In Alberta

Ex Pat Attacks Medicare

Privatizing Health Care

Laundry Workers Fight Privatization

Find blog posts, photos, events and more off-site about:
medicare, healthcare, Canada, Medicare reform
Norman Bethune, privatization, Canada, CMA, Doctors, businessmen, privatizing healthcare, health care, public health care, medicare, private health care
medicare, health care, Canada, physician assistant , nurse practicioners, doctors on salry, privatized-health care, private-medical-services, medicine, privatization,community health clinics,

Internet Anarchy

Once again here is an example of how Free Speech and Freedom of the Press on the Internet runs counter to the State and it's laws. And as usual shows that the State is one step behind. Those who would censor for good or evil, will of course decry this situation.While those who believe that the public has a right to know, which was the purpose of the press and the idea of free speech even back in the good old days of Gutenberg, runs counter to those who would limit our knowledge of events in order to protect....whom??!!

In this case the publicity forced the State to reveal the victim of a horrible crime. But of course the alleged attackers remain cloaked in secrecy. And even if found guilty, depending on their ages, we may never know their real identities.

Toronto police say the use of a Facebook web site in the Stefanie Rengel case highlights the futility of imposing publication bans and that something needs to be done to update the law.

Under restrictions imposed by the Youth Criminal Justice Act, media outlets were banned from identifying either the victim or two teenagers accused in the girl's death.
Despite the ban, all three identities, including pictures, are being freely posted on Facebook, which is against the law.

Stefanie Rengel, 14, died New Year's Day in hospital of stab wounds after being found bleeding on the sidewalk near O'Connor Drive and St. Clair Avenue by a passerby.
(Family Photo)

Police and legal experts are concerned that those actions might affect the right to a fair trial for a teenaged boy and girl charged in Rengel's death.
The 14-year-old died New Year's Day in hospital of stab wounds after being found bleeding on the sidewalk near O'Connor Drive and St. Clair Avenue by a passerby.

Mark Pugash, spokesman for the Toronto Police Service, says the Rengel case is a perfect example of how Facebook can often interfere with the rule of law.
"We simply have no control," he said. "I think what the events of the last few days have shown is that there are many people who are part of the criminal justice process who have to look and see whether changes are necessary."
Police released the name of the victim Thursday after obtaining the consent of her parents, as required by the Youth Criminal Justice Act.
Legal observers say the case shows the law's inability to keep up with those who wish to express themselves on the internet.

Why ban the name of the victim? And being the child of police officers it is clear that they released their daughters name despite the YJCA.

After all even in regular criminal cases the assumption is that those charged are innocent until proven guilty, which is why the media use the term alleged. Well they are supposed to but often they don't. And of course the public often assumes that someone charged is guilty. But that doesn't mean that we don't publish names of the accused. So here is the contradiction for the Conservative Law and Order Government. They changed the age of consent to 16, they dropped the age that one could be charged as an adult for murder to 10 but we still have a press ban on naming teen agers involved in violent crime. Worse we may also have a ban on explicit details of a case as was the situation in the Homolka/Bernardo case. A case that showed the powerlessness of the court injunction on the media which was swept aside by internet reporting.

Now with Facebook, Myspace and other instant social networking sites, let alone blogs, websites in other countries, anonymous posting, etc. the attempt to restrict public knowledge of crimes makes a mockery of the law. After all who do you sue? Who do you jail? And why would you. In this case the Facebook site actually forced the situation into the public light. A light under the bushel. And the public interest is better served than by the injunctions and restrictions of the courts.


This is not the only recent case of teen deaths by teens using knives in Toronto so instead of hiding the name of the victim and the alleged attackers why not reveal all. And while we are at it why not reveal why we suspect such crimes are happening, rather than leaving it in the dark and thus open to all kinds of conspiracy theories and unsubstantiated suppositions. That is the real danger of the stupidity of this youth law and court restrictions.

In fact it is also the problem with criminal courts in Canada, they remain a British Judicial process rather than a libertarian one, that is one based on a jury system. Instead youth courts remain a Judicial prerogative, one operated as a closed system of lawyers, judges and severely lacks public scrutiny or access. Decisions made behind closed doors in secrecy are a bad thing, regardless of the judgment. Anything that opens up this closed system to public view is a good thing.

The final irony is that the very law that is being exposed as impotent is further cuckolded by the fact the Facebook posters themselves are teenagers.

Martha McKinnon, executive director of Justice for Children and Youth, says the answer is education. She says many Facebook users are teens and may not even know they are breaking the law.
"Neither the federal nor provincial government have invested any resources into educating the public about why we have these confidence provisions [in the Youth Criminal Justice Act]; what they are for ... so that people will actually know what the law is," she said.

Unlike the justifiable confidentiality of names of rape victims, which is what the YCJA is based on , this has turned out to be a disastrous decision when it comes to Free Speech, Free Press and the right of the public to know. It is not a matter of educating the public but of allowing the public the right to judge through a public jury process. Which includes the publics right to know. Anything less is a cynical elitist process that concludes we are not as knowledgeable of right and wrong as those who make the laws and enforce them.

One only has to see the jury decision in the case to see that a jury is far more understanding and sensible than the court system and its professional advocates.

And contrary to Martha McKinnon's comments these young people don't need no educating about the YJCA and the impact of naming the accused as these discussions and comments show. In fact the discussion mirrors that of the adults in Canada who are also outraged by the YJCA. They are not outraged by what the act is meant to do, but what in fact it does in prohibiting the publication of the names of accused; the denial of a public trial.

It is this failure of Free Speech, and an open public trial that creates the calls for harsher penalties and the return of the death penalty.

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DO NOT POST ABOUT THE TWO ACCUSED

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Topic: DO NOT POST ABOUT THE TWO ACCUSED

Displaying all 27 posts by 26 people.

Post #1

4 replies

Corey Hafezi (Leaside High School) wrote 23 hours ago.

DO NOT POST ABOUT THE TWO ACCUSED, EVEN IF YOU ARE AWARE OF WHO THEY MAY BE.

THIS WILL HURT THE CASE AGAINST THEM, AS THEY WILL NOT HAVE 'A fair and just trail'

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Post #2

Marin Gillesse (Toronto, ON) replied to Corey's post 23 hours ago.

'A fair and just trail' is all that we can ask, so i will respect that.

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Post #3

3 replies

Ryley Hillen (Toronto, ON) replied to Corey's post 23 hours ago.

May i ask.. how will us knowing their names affect their trial?

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Post #4

2 replies

Corey Hafezi (Leaside High School) replied to Ryley's post 23 hours ago.

They are protected by the LAW

and as Facebook is a media source, their names cannot be published under the Youth Criminal Justice Act

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Post #5

Ryley Hillen (Toronto, ON) replied to Corey's post 23 hours ago.

Ohhhhh yeahhhhhh thats correct

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Post #6

Marilyn Faraday (Toronto, ON) wrote 23 hours ago.

Lawyers are tricky and could possibly get the two co-accused off on a technicality because it is against the law to publish their name.....as unfair as that law is it is still the law......lets make sure they have what they have coming to them for Stefanie's sake. Doesn't she deserve that??

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Post #7

Natasha Rose-Marie Bogle (Toronto, ON) wrote 23 hours ago.

if you know any information call 416 222 tips

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Post #8

1 reply

Samantha Ross (no network) replied to Ryley's post 23 hours ago.

Ryley,

If the accused names are posted...their lawyers can use that information during the court proceedings for the accused not getting a fair trial, and they could possibly get off for technicality reasons due to this.

I understand all of the friends are very upset and angry...but I ask that you all let the police and the courts do their jobs...please do not make matters.

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Post #9

Ryley Hillen (Toronto, ON) replied to Samantha's post 22 hours ago.

Alrighttt

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Post #10

Justine Hildebrandt (Toronto, ON) wrote 22 hours ago.

Apparently criminals, no matter what their age, have rights. The male accused is almost 18 years old.

IMHO They need to scrap the Young Offenders Act.

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Post #11

Adrien Kwok (Metropolitan Preparatory Academy) replied to Corey's post 22 hours ago.

I agree with that. We shouldn't name the suspects at all, else we may (although I don't think it would change anything much) point out the wrong people.

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Post #12

Mike Quaia (Toronto, ON) wrote 21 hours ago.

The Young offenders Act needs to be reviewed.the age of a younge offender should be at the max..be 12 anyone older knows right from wrong...so the young offender gets off ...if it was lowered then all would be charged as adaults.

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Post #13

1 reply

Mary Coleman (Toronto, ON) replied to Corey's post 21 hours ago.

Relax Corey, posting their names will not hurt the case. I know this for sure. They have compelling evidence against the young man..he is definitely going down no technicalities on first degree murder. I am glad people are posting the two murder's names.

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Post #14

Ken Jacobs (Toronto, ON) replied to Mary's post 21 hours ago.

Mary
The kids deleted the name of the killer and are afraid to post up his facebook page and that of his co-accused.

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Post #15

Stender Dave wrote 20 hours ago.

I'm a Dad... I wish I could empathize, but I can't. This is a tragic path that only the rengel family and friends can endure. But as for contaminating the case against the two accused, I think they would be safer locked up for the rest of their lives. I feel for the parents of the accused, because they REALLy have to question themselve's where they went wrong? I can't grasp why some 17 year old would need to carry a knife? That decision to carry a knife makes him accountable and simply guilty. Save tax payers money and locked the murderer (s) up! And if they get off on some technicallity that some overpaid lawyer figures out. We are the people of Toronto, Ontario, Canada in whole. Should not accept the death of a 14 year old innocent girl.... If I was the father of the accused, i would have to stand by my child, but not hold his hand. I'm truly saddened and sorry their loss's. Yes change the Youth Criminal Act (yesterday!)

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Post #16

1 reply

Heather Long (Toronto, ON) replied to Corey's post 20 hours ago.

It can effect the trial so don't do it just to be safe. They can say the Jury pool was contaminated, if evidence gets out they can find it inadmissable.

I think with first degree muder if you are over 16 ( maybe 17) they automaticaly try (sp) you as an adult. If not they will definatly go for it in this case.

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Post #17

David Butler (Toronto, ON) replied to Heather's post 20 hours ago.

Can you post the names of the "convicted"? meaning... after the trial, when the accused are found guilty? That's what I would like to do.

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Post #18

Bernadette Doucette (no network) wrote 20 hours ago.

Their names should be made public,why should they be protected in any way,shape or form.Do the crime....do the time
The young offenders act needs to be scrapped ! This is where the problem lies these young kids know they are protected under the young offender act so they feel they have no worries....B.S. to that
These kids do not deserve to be protected after taking an innocent life
My hope is that they will ROT IN HELL !!

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Post #19

Dice-k Bustsazaka wrote 19 hours ago.

As a father, I am saddened by hearing a young life taken away like this.

God bless the family.

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Post #20

Noel Laurence (Barrie, ON) wrote 18 hours ago.

The ppl that are saying not to post the names of the young offenders are right if it gets out to the publice they can use the fact that they didnt get a fair and just trail everyone that knows the ones that are being charged with the murder should just keep it to themselfs that way u dont get yourself invloved................ thats why they have the young offenders act to help portect there rights.......i know it sounds unfair but thats the way the law works

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Post deleted 3 hours ago.

Post #22

Shauna O'Kane (Toronto, ON) wrote 18 hours ago.

Please anyone - as a friend of the family - I am begging you that if you have any information - including statements made by the accused in the past - please come forward with that information - no matter how minor you think it may be. If you are afraid - please call 416-222-TIPS which is a confidential tip line. Just think about how it would feel if it were your sister and people weren't coming forward to help.

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Post #23

Ken Jacobs (Toronto, ON) replied to Liz's post 10 hours ago.

Liz
the one and only reason the media is not saying the names of the accused is because of their age.

Any time an adult is charged with anything, their name and charge is public record right away.

Just go to the web site of any police department and look at their press releases.

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Post #24

Jimmy Tucker (Winnipeg, MB) wrote 8 hours ago.

OK, so we hide their identities, and then it turns out they ARE guilty, and they are protected by the law, and nobody can touch them!?
Canada needs to take some pointers from some mid eastern legal systems, our gov't is too leanient on murderers.

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Post #25

1 reply

Michelle James (Toronto, ON) wrote 7 hours ago.

I just wanted to put in my two cents, because I know how angry everyone is and how much you are all hurting right now...my 16 year old best friend was murdered by young offenders that we grew up with and knew..they were protected by the young offenders act - we couldn't publish their names...The one who actually shot her (in her own home) was tried as an adult and when he was convicted, his name was allowed to be released to the media..you may remember recently he was up for parole - Junior Johnson.
Be patient, it looks as though adult trials are on the way and the names will be made public if they are tried as adults...I know how much you hurt right now and how angry you are at the accused, but you really don't want to give them any ammo to say their rights were violated by publishing thier names.
Our laws SUCK and we need to change them...
THESE PEOPLE DO NOT DESERVE TO BE PROTECTED!
THEY TOOK A BEAUTIFUL YOUNG LIFE AND THEY NEED TO GO AWAY FOREVER!

If you would like, I invite you all to join my group where we are petitioning for changes to the Youth Criminal Justice Act and changes to the laws concerning convicted murderers and parole eligiblity.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=3652565113

Let's not just talk about the need for change - let's do something to effect it!

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Post deleted 2 hours ago.

Post #27

Christine Hildebrandt-Wooller (Toronto, ON) replied to Michelle's post 7 hours ago.

"Let's not just talk about the need for change - let's do something to effect it!"

I agree Michelle! Something has to be done. Eighty-four murders in Toronto last year was far too many. Why are people carrying weapons? The murder of Keyon Campbell was in my neighbourhood. Just before that another murder less then 1 kilometer from my home.

Last years first murder of 2007 was so close to my home. Now in 2008 another murder on the first day of the year... a child! The violence is all around us and we all have to step up and do something.

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Post #28

1 reply

Meagan Allan (Toronto, ON) wrote 6 hours ago.

ya wanna know why the youth justice act needs to go.... cuz these two accused that we will never know the name of...will get a slap on the wrist and be out before u know it..so lets say 5 yrs from now after they are not even on probation anymore and there young offender charges are wiped clean and there gionger prints and mug shots are destroyed..... they will be ur nighbour, ur babysitter, ur new boyfriend, your sisters fiancee, ur new best friend, the love of ur life, the most amazing person u've met, the only person ur son trusts, ur pal ur buddy./... BUT THERE ALSO CONVICTED CRIMINALS OF MURDER AND U HAVE NO IDEA....cuz now that there adults and "served there time"(PETTY TIME MIGHT I ADD)... WE AS SOCIETY WILL NEVER KNOW ABOUT IT BECAUSE THEY WERE "CHILDEREN"....MIGHT I ADD READ MY "METAPHOR" AGAIN... THIS COULD HAPPEN 5 YRS FROM NOW...THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I LITERLLY KNOW PPL WHO ARE UNDER 18 THAT COMMIT CRIMES ON PURPOSE OR FOR OTHER PPL CUZ THEY GET OFF EASY....

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Post #29

Julie Price replied to Meagan's post 37 minutes ago.

Meagan.. as someone who knows the a lil about the system i just have to say their criminal records are not wiped clean the day they turn 18... the record is closed once there sentence is up.. and then depending on the seriousness of the crime 5-7 years after that .. (if they stay outta trouble..) the record cannot be re opened in future cases.. due to the age when commited the crime.. it stays in file.. weither the cops supposedly *destroy the files of not*
and as far as i know the information i put down in true... maybe not to the exact pin point... but majority of it is.

Youth Criminal Justice Act

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Topic: Youth Criminal Justice Act

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Post #1

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Maggie Lennon (Toronto, ON) wrote 18 hours ago.

The Youth Criminal Justice Act (YCJA) was introduced in April 2003, replacing the outdated Young Offenders Act (YOA). Under both pieces of legislation, youth are between the ages of 12 and 17 (up to the day before their 18th birthday). The YCJA is actually a "tougher" piece of legislation when it comes to murder than it's predecessor. It allows for a youth to be sentenced as an adult (which is what I believe the Crown attorneys are seeking) which can carry with it the maximum penalty of life in prison. Even though the youth is tried in a youth court, they can still be sentenced as an adult. Hope this clarifies some things for everyone. May Stefanie get the justice she so rightly deserves.

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Post #2

Joe Wamback (no network) replied to Maggie's post 8 hours ago.

First I must extend our condolances and saddness to the family and friends of Stephanie. Life will no longer be the same.
Second, the YCJA is not tougher than the YOA.

The fine points of the law are actually somewhat different.
Under section 745.1 of the Canadian criminal code which deals with persons under the age of 18 that are convicted of first degree murder and sentenced as an adult allows for parole after serving anywhere from 5 - 7 years. This is not life in prison.
A youth sentence for first degree murder provides for a maximum 6 years in custody before parole, so the Youth sentence may actually see the murderer spend more time in custody
In addition, the sentence whether adult or youth will be served in a youth facility, not a penetentiary, untill the age of 20 or in some cases 23 years of age.

Joe Wamback, Founder
Canadian Crime Victim Foundation

teen violence in toronto.

Back to rosedale heigts memorel to Stefanie Rengel

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Topic: teen violence in toronto.

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Post #1

Ashley Collins wrote 3 hours ago.

I moved to the st. clair and o'connor area oct of 2008 and since I have been living there there have been multiple shootings and now this.
I live two streets away from where stefanie was killed and that makes me afraid to leave my house at night. What could a 14 yr old possibly have done to provoke a stabbing.. My guess: NOTHING.
As the years go on teens seem to have the idea that violence is a good thing, they don't think about the consequences and it's time we opened their eyes. Since I've been at my highscool there were two shootings and a stabbing, all done by teenagers and that's what gets reported.
It's time we showed the youth of today that it's wrong to commit violent acts.
It's time that the punishments were more severe it's time to have true justice in society. Why should we go easy on them when the didn't go easy on stef.
A murderer is a murderer it doesn't matter how old you are.

Finally it once again exposes the need for real sex and family life education courses in our schools since it appears that this maybe a crime of misplaced passion, jealousy and a love triangle. The failure to deal with human sexuality and human relationships through humanistic education continues to be a fatal flaw in our public education system. Obviously the old adage of leaving such education up to parents and 'the church' has never worked and never will.

Friends of Rengel say she was the victim of a love triangle involving an ex-boyfriend. Meanwhile, one of Rengel's classmates told CTV Toronto that he heard the accused boy say he would stab the victim. The suspect allegedly shouted the remark during a cellphone conversation in the hallway of their school.

What appears as murder may have been manslaughter, and as embarrassing as the facts may be they should be made public for the good of all. Because speculation without facts is far worse and leads to a lynch mob mentality and more not less reactionary laws.