Danielle Smith says call with Artur Pawlowski was between two party leaders

Story by Brodie Thomas • Calgary Herald

Premier Danielle Smith gave a new explanation about her phone conversation with street preacher Artur Pawlowski during her radio show Saturday.


Alberta Premier Danielle Smith speaks during a press conference at the McDougall Centre in Calgary on Monday, April 3, 2023

People have been questioning why the premier was having a conversation with Pawlowski when he had been involved in the Coutts border crossing blockade, and was facing criminal charges in relation to that incident.

Pawlowski was leader of the fringe Alberta Independence Party at that time the call was made.

On her weekly Chorus radio show, Smith said she believed she was having a call between two party leaders when the topic changed to COVID amnesty.

“Obviously, Mr. Pawlowski holds some very extreme views that I do disagree with completely,” said the premier. “When we talked, I thought we were talking in the context of him being a political party leader, because he was at the time the head of the Independence Party. And it turned into a discussion about what I was doing with COVID amnesty and I’ve been very clear about what I was trying to do with COVID amnesty.”

Smith said she understands people’s concerns about the call.

A recording of the call was leaked to the Opposition NDP, which played it for reporters March 29, prompting Smith to announce a week ago she will not discuss the issue publicly because she is considering defamation action and can’t talk on the advice of her lawyer.

Melanee Thomas, a political science professor at the University of Calgary, said although the premier of any party has to engage in partisan matters at times, it doesn’t absolve them from their role as a representative for everyone in the province. Thomas said there is a well understood norm of significant restraint expected of any elected official in a role such as premier.

“This idea that (she) was only acting in (her) capacity as a party leader, that’s not consistent with the content of the phone call, because the premier was speaking and indicating things that she was prepared to do as premier,” said Thomas.

She said if Prime Minister Justin Trudeau had tried to use a partisan excuse in the SNC Lavalin affair, it would not have excused what happened in that case, nor would it have eased the concerns of critics.

“I think she’s tilting at windmills to try to make this make sense, and make it go away, and it’s not helping,” said Thomas

Alberta NDP Justice Critic Irfan Sabir again called for an independent investigation into the call following the morning radio show.

“This is yet another desperate move from Danielle Smith to distract from her attempt to block the prosecution of Pawlowski and others at Coutts,” said Sabir in a press release.

“The entire call between Pawlowski and Smith is her describing her efforts to block these charges, either by weekly calls to prosecutors or her expressing her dissatisfaction to the Attorney General and deputy Attorney General. There’s absolutely no discussion of party politics in the call.”

Sabir said the matter needs an independent investigation from a judge, and he’d like to see it turned around in 30 days.

— With files from the Canadian Press
brthomas@postmedia.com
Twitter: @brodie_thomas

Calgary Herald Letters, April 8: 

No excuse for premier to meddle in justice

The standard applied by Crown prosecutors as to whether a prosecution will proceed is twofold: Is there a reasonable likelihood of conviction?; and, is prosecution in the public interest?

Premier Danielle Smith speaks during a news conference at the McDougall Centre in Calgary on, April 3.© Provided by Calgary Herald

These are the inquiries made by individual prosecutors, primarily to themselves, as charges are assessed for advancement or withdrawal. Neither are, in any context, questions properly made by a premier to a prosecutor.

In the Pawlowski tape, Premier Danielle Smith asserts that she has the authority to ask those questions and has been doing so almost weekly.

The premier has since said that in terms of talking to “prosecutors,” this was limited to inquiries with the minister of Justice and the deputy minister. If in fact such questions were being asked “almost weekly,” it must not have taken many weeks before the premier was finally tuned in to the absurdity of doing so — such questioning being both a violation of her duties as premier and obviously quite pointless.

All considered, the premier’s conduct in this matter is nothing less than astounding and highly persuasive of being unfit to serve in the role of premier. Even weekly discussions with the minister of Justice (if those occurred) would be highly improper, and arguably an attempt to interfere with the administration of justice. Nor is this excusable conduct should it be offered that she is ignorant of the various roles, responsibilities and duties that elected government officials carry and must be careful to uphold.

Pat Knoll, Calgary, professor emeritus of law, U of C

Alberta premier gives new version of why she spoke with accused before criminal trial

Story by The Canadian Press • 1h ago

EDMONTON — Alberta Premier Danielle Smith has delivered a new version of why she engaged in a controversial phone call with a Calgary street pastor in which they discussed his upcoming criminal case related to COVID-19 public health measures.


Alberta premier gives new version of why she spoke with accused before criminal trial© Provided by The Canadian Press

Smith told her weekly phone-in radio show Saturday that she took the call from Art Pawlowski because she thought it was going to be in the context of his role as the leader of another political party.

She said when the discussion veered into Pawlowski’s court case, she simply reminded the former head of the Alberta Independence Party that she had tried to gain amnesty for COVID accused but was told by justice officials the cases must play out independently, and that she accepted that advice.

She also said she disagrees strongly with Pawlowski’s “extreme views.”

“When we talked, I thought we were talking in the context of him being a political party leader because (Pawlowski) was at the time the head of the Independence Party,” Smith told her Corus radio audience on her show “Your Province Your Premier” in response to a question from the host.

“It turned into a discussion about what I was doing with COVID amnesty.

“And I've been very clear about what I was trying to do with COVID amnesty. I campaigned (for the party leadership) on it. I said I would look into ways in which we might be able to address the non-violent, non-firearms-related, non-contempt-of-court-related charges.”

The 11-minute phone call took place in early January, weeks before Pawlowski went on trial on charges related to the 2022 protest at the U.S. border at Coutts, Alta., over COVID restrictions.

He was charged with breaching a release order and mischief for allegedly inciting people to block public property at the border crossing.

He was also charged under the Alberta Critical Infrastructure Defence Act with willfully damaging or destroying essential infrastructure.

The trial has ended but the judge has yet to render a verdict.

A recording of the pre-trial phone call was obtained by the Alberta New Democrats and played for media on March 29.

In response to the account Smith offered on Saturday, NDP justice critic Irfan Sabir wondered why politics never came up if the phone call was ostensibly to discuss politics.

“The entire call between Pawlowski and Smith is her describing her efforts to block these charges, either by weekly calls to prosecutors or her expressing her dissatisfaction to the attorney general and deputy attorney general,” said Sabir.

“This is yet another desperate move from Danielle Smith to distract from her attempt to block the prosecution of Pawlowski and others at Coutts.”

Sabir repeated a call for an expedited internal probe into the matter before Albertans go to the polls on May 29 for a provincial election.

Related video: Alberta premier says she will no longer comment on Crown prosecutor controversy (The Canadian Press)  Duration 2:08  View on Watch

Smith first publicly acknowledged that she had spoken with Pawlowski on Feb. 9 when asked about it at a news conference.

She answered at that time she had engaged in discussions with those facing COVID-related charges to tell them she had explored amnesty and that it was not possible. She did not say the Pawlowski discussion was supposed to have been about politics or that she had expected to be talking to him in his role as a party leader.

When the NDP released the call recording seven weeks later, Smith announced she would not discuss the issue publicly because she was considering defamation action and was acting on the advice of her lawyer.

Saturday's explanation comes two days after reporters asked Smith whether the call with Pawlowski means her government has changed policy and that politicians were free to discuss active criminal cases with the accused.

Smith said there has been no policy change. She said it remains offside for politicians to discuss active court cases with accused, but her call with Pawlowski passed muster because it’s her job as an elected official to listen and act on concerns from members of the public.

Legal experts say the call was a clear violation of the firewall between politicians and the justice system to prevent politicians from getting a say in who gets charged and how.

They note while Smith is heard on the call reminding Pawlowski she can’t intervene directly, she also confides in him that she is questioning justice officials “almost weekly” about the cases.

On the call, Smith is also heard sharing details of an internal disagreement over Crown case strategy with Pawlowski. She promises to make inquiries on Pawlowski’s behalf and report back to him while also telling him the charges against him were politically motivated.

She commiserates with Pawlowski when he accuses the Crown prosecutor in his case of a last minute “document dump” of files which he said was aimed at frustrating his defence.

Legal experts have also said regardless of the context, Smith at the very least should have ended the call when Pawlowski raised the issue of his case.

Pawlowski is a controversial figure in Alberta for his high-profile, disruptive demonstrations against the LGBTQ community and COVID-19 health rules.

The Alberta Independence party announced it was parting ways with Pawlowski as leader late last month, saying their values no longer aligned.

On the January call, Smith is heard telling Pawlowski, “I’ve been watching your public advocacy for many years so it’s nice to connect with you.”

She struck a different tone on Saturday's radio show.

“Obviously, Mr. Pawlowski holds some very extreme views that I disagree with completely,” she said.

Smith has faced questions about her involvement with prosecutors since telling the media in mid-January she regularly reminds Crown lawyers the cases can only be pursued if they are winnable and in the public interest.

She later walked those comments back, saying she didn't talk to frontline prosecutors but only senior justice officials, as is proper. Her assertion is backed up by the Justice Department.

Since then, Smith has offered multiple, at times conflicting, explanations on who she talked to, what was discussed and when. She has said the talks were only about broad prosecution principles but has also said they were about issues related to the cases. She has stated the talks were ongoing and that the talks had ended.

On April 2, lawyers representing Smith sent a notice of defamation letter calling on the CBC to retract and apologize for a January story. The article alleged a member of her staff sent emails to the Alberta Crown Prosecution Service challenging how it was handling court cases from the Coutts blockade.

While the CBC says it stands by its reporting, Smith has said a review found no evidence of contact between her office and the prosecution service.

That review has also featured conflicting statements from the Justice Department on how far back the search went on any emails between the department and Smith's office.

Smith said her United Conservative Party, not the government, is paying for the lawsuit. Smith's office and the party have declined to say why the party is paying.

Smith has long been critical of COVID-19 masking, gathering and vaccine mandate rules, questioning if they were needed to fight the pandemic. She has called them intolerable violations of personal freedoms.

This report by The Canadian Press was first published April 8, 2023.

Dean Bennett, The Canadian Press