By Spencer Van DykPublished: May 18, 2025
LONG READ
In an exclusive Canadian broadcast interview, Prime Minister Mark Carney sat down with CTV News chief political correspondent Vassy Kapelos to discuss his mandate for change, Canada’s “investment era,” becoming an “energy superpower,” and U.S. President Donald Trump.
He also answered some rapid-fire questions about the start of a new session of Parliament, whether he’s seeking out floor-crossers, whether he plans to renegotiate the Canada-U.S.-Mexico free trade agreement.
Here’s a full transcript of that conversation, it has been edited for grammar and clarity.
Vassy Kapelos: I wanted to start off on your cabinet selections, and in particular, who you selected for your front bench. I think a lot of Canadians physically would have looked at that front bench today and said it looked remarkably like the previous government. Is that not the opposite of what they elected you to do?
Mark Carney: Well, there’s a number of things that are different in that front bench. For example, François-Philippe Champagne is the minister of finance. He became the minister of finance when I became prime minister for that brief period following winning the leadership election. Lots of experience, but not the minister of finance. Now he’s going to have a real run at being minister of finance.
Melanie Joly moving from foreign affairs to becoming minister of industry. This is a government that has a huge focus on the economy, and specifically cost of living, but really growing wages and jobs for Canadians. So, she has a crucial role, but it’s a new role for her.
Dominic LeBlanc as the minister of intergovernmental affairs. I need experience in that role that Dominic has. He’s got great relations with a number of the premiers. We are going to focus on building one Canadian economy, changing how we’re doing big projects, all in the course of the next several months. Plus, he’s been one of the main, if not the main, interlocutors with the level of the U.S. government below President (Donald) Trump.
So, I don’t want to switch everybody out in that circumstance. And then, you know, you look at Anita Anand, who’s moving into foreign affairs. It’s a big change into those jobs.
So, there’s some similarities. There’s experience, experience being deployed in different ways. I’m a new prime minister, and let’s look at the cabinet as a whole, because I’m not quite sure I make the distinction between the “front bench” and the cabinet as a whole.
We only have 28 cabinet ministers. That’s down from the mid-, upper-40s of some previous governments. Half of those ministers are new, never been cabinet ministers before. In many cases, they’re new to Parliament as a whole. So, we’re bringing in a lot of fresh energy, fresh ideas, fresh perspectives, alongside with experience. And that’s a good team, that’s a good management team. In my judgment, obviously, I spent a lot of time trying to construct it that way.
Kapelos: And I do take the point on the fresh faces, but even when you point to the experience of those who are in the biggest roles, the reason why I highlight them is because they were at the forefront of the decisions that the previous government made.
Carney: I disagree with that.
Kapelos: They were. I mean, Melanie Joly, François-Philippe Champagne, he led the industrial policy now he’ll be in charge of finance. Dominic LeBlanc led a lot of those files as well. We are used to hearing from them, justifying and explaining the decision that Justin Trudeau made. And now we’re going to hear from them again.
Carney: Well, first off, now you’re hearing from me. I’m a new prime minister. I’m the 24th prime minister of Canada. I’ve got a very clear set of objectives, which I laid out in the course of my initial government from that cabinet table: cancel the carbon tax, right there, in fact, just to our right, my first act. But developing this focus on one Canadian economy, getting rid of internal trade barriers, we’ll do our job by Canada Day. That means the federal government, we’re working with the provinces so that they can move out of the way. Some of them are moving really fast, Nova Scotia, Ontario, others moving fast. We’re trying to get all of them, plus unlocking these major projects that are going to build this economy for the next generations, not just growth today, but growth for generations. That’s a focus that is an entirely new focus of this government.
At the same time, we’re working on this economic security partnership with the Americans and diversifying our trade partnership. Different focus, different people. There were so many differences, as I say, half of the cabinet is different. Big change in terms of priorities, big change in terms of speed. This is one of the fastest swearing-in, in Canadian history. It will be one of the fastest returns to Parliament in Canadian history, where you’ll see with the Speech from the Throne, which the King will deliver in whatever it is, 12 days’ time, 13 days’ time, and in that Speech from the Throne, are going to enumerate some priorities, including success by Canada Day. So, we’re going to go hard.
Kapelos: So how do you articulate, because you conceded today, you did through the campaign, that the mandate you have is one for change. It’s against that backdrop that I’m asking those questions about those big faces for your cabinet. How would you articulate to Canadians what that change will actually look like? Is it just you?
Carney: No. Okay, if I may, you are going into process and personnel. I’m going to results. I’m talking about one Canadian economy. I’m talking about getting rid of all the federal barriers.
Kapelos: But those personnel…
Carney: No, no, no, no, no. Please. Let me answer the question. Those are real results that will happen or not. We will either pass that legislation or not. First point. Secondly, in terms of working with the provinces, working with Indigenous peoples, working with the territories, identifying the nation-building process, a process that has already begun, I helped start it during my first few days as prime minister in the previous mandate, now going to accelerate through. Already talking with (Alberta) Premier (Danielle) Smith, (Saskatchewan) Premier (Scott) Moe, (Ontario) Premier (Doug) Ford, (Quebec) Premier (François) Legault, all the premiers, (Manitoba) Premier (Wab) Kinew. Sorry, now I’m going to offend somebody because I haven’t mentioned them all, but they’re all working on this. And, working towards our Saskatoon First Ministers’ Meeting June 2.
Again, that’s a tangible thing. You’ll see where we’re coming together on specific projects.
What’s the federal government doing to support those? What are we doing with respect to our relationship with the United States? So these are all real things, and to reduce it, to person, faces, personnel, and then, by the way, to ignore half of the cabinet, which is brand new, literally never been in cabinet before, and now they’re in, in very senior roles at core priorities for the government.
Kapelos: It’s definitely not to reduce the new people that I ask. It’s because, to be fair, I covered that government extensively. Those are the ministers who told me time and time again, the carbon tax was the only way to address climate change, who told me time and time again, the only way to be fiscally responsible was to bring in capital gains tax changes. Yes, you came in and you changed that. But these are the people for 10 years who defended what you say you have a mandate to change.
Carney: Okay, let’s be clear about mandates. We just had an election, you might have noticed, I think you covered it, right? Nineteen million Canadians voted. More Canadians voted for a political party, the Liberal Party, than ever before. We have more votes than anyone else. We have majorities in seven of the 10 provinces. We have the most seats in Parliament. And we ran on a very clear platform of change. More Canadians chose that platform of change than anybody else’s. So, we have a clear mandate.
I come and all the deputies in Parliament, come with a responsibility to deliver that change. That’s what Canadians, they put their trust in us. They expect us to deliver. And I’m going to put together the cabinet, the legislative agenda, and work with the provinces, work with Indigenous people, work with the territories, in order to deliver for Canadians. And Canadians will judge the change that they receive, that’s the right thing. And I’ll do what’s necessary with the people I have around the table in order to deliver that.
Kapelos: I wanted to ask about what that change looks like. You got a question (Tuesday) about, for example, tangibly, how will Canadians know that their life is better? More specifically, you made some very specific promises during the campaign about what would happen to our economy, the biggest transformation since the end of the Second World War, it would become the most prosperous economy in the G7. How, and by when?
Carney: Well, first off, what we’re looking to do is unlock an investment era in this country. So, investment in conventional energy, oil and gas, investment in clean energy, getting up to doubling the rate of home-building over several years, so that the rate of new home construction in this country is twice as much as it was previously. Those are very tangible things. We have to make big changes, some in federal legislation, some in terms of how we work with the provinces, some in terms of how we finance certain activities, all of which we’re prepared to do.
Canadians will see that change as we deliver that change. But there are more immediate things that we can do for Canadians, and we intend to do them. So, for example, we, as I said a few hours ago, just before I sat down with you, we will deliver that middle class tax cut by Canada Day. So, we’re going to go to Parliament, and we are going to table a motion for that middle-class tax cut, up to $825 for a two-earning family in Canada. That would be in place by Canada Day. That’s an example. Also, cutting the GST on new homes.
So, there are tangible things in the near-term, but then the transformation, which you rightly talk about, the transformation of the economy, those are big structural changes which we need to do big things in order to get them going. And we are going to do them. You’re going to hear a lot about them. You’re going to hear a lot about them from different people. Let me give you an example, talking about change. Gregor Robertson. Gregor Robertson is the minister of housing and infrastructure. Gregor Robertson has never been a federal MP, he’s got one of the most important areas. Let’s talk about change. Tim Hodgson, brand new, never been an MP. He is minister of Natural Resources Canada, so think critical minerals, think conventional oil and gas, think electricity, think trade corridors. He needs to help deliver that. We’re bringing in external expertise that Canadians validated. These people, of course, were elected in their ridings. They’re coming straight into cabinet. Huge mandate for change. We’re going to work together in order to deliver it.
Kapelos: And I have some specific questions about those files. But on the bigger picture, for Canadians, are their incomes going to go up? Is GDP per capita going to go up? How am I going to know tangibly that you have accomplished what you said you’re going to do, which is probably the largest in scope promise we’ve heard from a politician in Canada?
Carney: Okay, let’s take a step back. I do think it’s worthwhile reminding ourselves that we are in a crisis. We are in, in my judgment, the biggest crisis that we have faced in generations, because of the American tariffs, but also because the global economy, the way it’s structured, the way it’s working, is fundamentally changing, and that’s an economy that we have relied on in Canada. Others have as well, but we’ve relied on it, and we need to adapt, and we need to get ahead of that. So, we need to make big changes.
Now, in the end, when you look at affordability, I’d like to talk about it in terms of Canadians getting ahead, people have a sense of getting ahead. And you know, as year goes after year, do I have more money in my pocket after paying the rent, paying for groceries, paying for cell phone bills, or do I feel like I’m falling behind? In periods of big inflation, you can be falling behind, but you can also have periods of relatively low inflation, but you just said it, your wages aren’t growing fast enough. So yes, ultimately, you’ve got to get to — if we want to talk like economists, I’m very happy to, but it’s probably not the way Canadians think — yes, you want to see GDP per capita increasing, we would need to see productivity increasing. Fundamentally, there is not a button marked ‘productivity’ around that cabinet table that you push and it instantly changes.
So, we have to do a variety of things in order for that to happen. Some of them relate to those big projects. A big element is going to be if we actually do get this one Canadian economy, that’s going to drive through. Something that wasn’t talked about a lot during the election campaign, but will be incredibly important to making people more productive themselves, and therefore getting higher wages themselves, not replacing their jobs, but making them more productive, will be (artificial intelligence) AI and the digital economy. How well we’re going to implement that? And so, we have a new ministry, new minister of digital and AI, Evan Solomon, new to Parliament, coming in clear mandate, clear resources, in order to drive that.
Kapelos: I want to talk about something a bit more conventional when you talk about big projects, and that is around energy. And in particular, when you said during the campaign, you want to make Canada an energy superpower. Do you mean you want Canada to export more oil and gas?
Carney: That is an element of it, but it’s not the element of it. So, there are multiple elements when you’re a superpower. Let’s look at America. America is a superpower. It is a superpower because it has a strong economy. It is a superpower because it has a strong military. Arguably, it is also a superpower because it has soft power — it’s cultural — the American influence is multiple, and all of those aspects contribute to it. So, when I talk about being an energy superpower, I always say in both clean and conventional energies. So, what does that mean? Yes, it does mean oil and gas. It means using our oil and gas here in Canada to displace imports wherever possible, particularly from the United States. It makes no sense to be sending that money south of the border or across the ocean. But yes, it also means more exports, without question. But it doesn’t stop there. That in and of itself doesn’t make us an energy superpower.
We can be an energy superpower, and we have all the components in nuclear, in hydro, potentially in carbon capture and storage, which is going to be one of the determinants of competitiveness and productivity in a number of sectors. So, what are we doing to build out all those aspects in our economy? What are we doing today? And look, if I were — I shouldn’t classify myself, but a conventional politician might say — what we should be judged by is whether or not we approve one pipeline, right? And that’s going to make us an energy superpower. And that is a type of objective that you can define and you can point to that is progress, but it doesn’t accomplish the bigger goals, and it’s not at the level of what Canada is capable of. We need to do multiple things at the same time in order to build this base, so that we are creating wealth and competitiveness, better lives for Canadians for generations.
So, we’re going to be very ambitious across a range. That’s why we’re not asking for one nation-building project, we’re asking for nation-building projects, and we are going to move as rapidly as possible on as many of them as possible.
Kapelos: If I’m accurately representing the point of view from people whose livelihood depends on the conventional energy sector, it’s not that they’re asking you “that’s it, that’s the be all, end all.” It’s that they want to know where conventional energy fits into your ambitions. And it’s not just because of the record of the previous government, it’s because of you yourself. In your book “Values,” for example, which extensively talks about a reorientation of the market around the climate imperative. Canadians had been asking throughout the campaign and now “is this Prime Minister Mark Carney of ‘Values,’ or is it the prime minister of the campaign?” Are you going to build that pipeline if the consensus exists?
Carney: It’s both. First off, I’ve said repeatedly, yes. First point. Secondly — because I understand the need for that consensus — I’m a prime minister who can help create that consensus. You can’t create a consensus on your own, but you have to drive processes that bring provinces along, bring the private sector in. Remember, I’ve got extensive experience. This is not just a concept to me. I have been involved in major energy projects for over three decades in the private sector, so I’ve got that experience bringing the provinces, working with Indigenous partners, putting it in place — as we have billions of dollars of financing for those Indigenous partners — bringing in somebody like Tim Hodgson, who, when he was CEO of Hydro One, was one of the only major corporations to have a major Indigenous partnership program that actually worked. So, we’re bringing the components in. We have to deliver.
Let me make another point, because I appreciate that you’ve read my book very carefully. At the core of the way I talk about the energy transition is the future of — including about Canada being an energy superpower — is the future is low risk. Canada’s low risk as a business investment place. Low cost. We’re getting cost down, including the oil sands, the marginal production of is low cost. And, low carbon. All three of those come together. We have the ingredients of all that. Let’s get together and move on it. And it takes more than just one pipeline in order to accomplish that.
Kapelos: I do understand that point, but I think, in your book, on multiple occasions, for example, you talk about the merits of a carbon tax, and now we have a different Prime Minister Mark Carney, who says, ‘the first thing I did in this very room was get rid of the carbon tax.’
Carney: I got rid of the consumer carbon tax, which is different than...
Kapelos: … the industrial side, but it’s still a portion of the carbon tax.
Carney: And how much of the emission reduction did that consumer carbon tax…
Kapelos: Nine per cent.
Carney: Well, it’s actually six, but you’ve extrapolated out to 2030, it’s nine per cent. … It’s not nothing, it’s not much. It’s not much. And we can do much better with different approaches, including collaborative approaches, which is what I’m looking to do.
And look, okay, if you want a simple answer on, will I support building a pipeline? Yes. That simple answer, I’ve given that multiple times, but I don’t stop at that. For example, if you want a simple answer on, how do I make homes more affordable? I could just say we’re going to cut GST on homes, but that doesn’t solve the problem. Don’t get me wrong, it’s good. That’s a positive thing and working collaboratively in order to happen. But it’s not enough. It’s not enough to make Canada an energy superpower. It’s not enough to build our full potential. It’s not enough to truly get incomes growing across the country. We can do much more. We are going to be very, very ambitious. Build big, build bold build now.
Kapelos: It does speak, though, to what people in Alberta and Saskatchewan, who didn’t vote for your party, are worried about, right? They are worried that it is the Mark Carney of “Values,” that it is the (former prime minister) Justin Trudeau government. And the reason I ask about that, is against that backdrop. You are still saying you’re going to keep (Bill) C-69 in place. You’re going to keep the emissions cap in place. They view that as evidence of something that runs counter to what you’re saying.
Carney: I’ve said very clearly, look, I am a pragmatist. I go over and over on this, and I really am. I’m interested in results. So, the point of building a pipeline, the point of building out carbon capture, is to get the results, to get those barrels to the market, to get carbon down. You can do both. We have the capability to do more. We have the capabilities financially, from a technological perspective, in terms of the companies, the federal government can play a role, the province of Alberta, obviously, other provinces, Indigenous people have to come along for almost all of these projects in order for them to actually work.
And what I’m putting on the table is, okay, let’s go. Let’s not talk about this. Let’s roll up our sleeves. Let’s focus in on specific projects, and let’s work on them together. Now I’ve had constructive conversations with Premier Moe in this vein, also with Premier Smith in this vein. So, the next stage of that is to sit down across premiers and other groups and start to refine that list and move forward. And we will change things at the federal level that need to be changed in order for projects to move forward.
Kapelos: Does that include C-69 and the emissions cap?
Carney: It could include both. Absolutely, it could include both. But I’m not going to do it conceptually. I’m going to do it on specifics. Do it for moving forward. And that’s the point. Canadians deserve results, not rhetoric and not talking past each other. And one of the things that I feel very strongly about and understand, I think, from both being in the private sector and working across government over the years, is you can’t get results unless you work across partners. So, it’s the federal government, it’s the provinces, it’s the companies, it’s Indigenous peoples. You can’t get result if you just say: ‘we’re not going to have environmental assessment.’ The (former prime minister Stephen) Harper government effectively tried that approach. It doesn’t work. You get tied up in court. So, what you have to do is to work together for an efficient and effective environmental assessment process.
What we have clearly signalled, and we’ve been absolutely clear, I’ve been very clear about this, is we will rely on provincial environmental assessments as appropriate. That is a huge shift in approach that potentially unlocks a series of projects. You have to do other things at the same time, again, roll up our sleeves, sit down, map out what needs to be done, we’ve got the team here, and we have the will to do it.
Kapelos: I have just, I’m already getting the wrap sign, and I apologize, I know your time is very limited. I wonder if I can ask very briefly on how Parliament will work on what you just mentioned. Have you spoken to (Conservative Leader) Pierre Poilievre about seeking support from the Conservatives in advancing parts of that agenda?
Carney: Mr. Poilievre and I spoke immediately after the election. He congratulated me, and I signalled to him that if he was, as he is, seeking a by-election, I would call it as soon as I’m allowed to do that. So that’s the conversation that we’ve had. He’s not the leader of the Opposition, as you know, at the moment, so any conversations, obviously, at least in the near term, would be with Mr. (Andrew) Scheer.
Kapelos: Have you explicitly had any conversations with anyone from any party about crossing over to help form a majority?
Carney: No.
Kapelos: When you called Donald Trump ‘transformative’ did you mean transformative in a good or bad way?
Carney: Yin and Yang. There’s both.
Kapelos: There’s both?
Carney: Look, what I say is, what matters for Canadians is that the relationship with the U.S. has changed. I’ve been clear about that. Clear about that for months. I think others were very slow to recognize that. I think it’s now increasingly understood. Secondly, that it has bigger ramifications than just the U.S. The way the global economy is working is changing. We need to change. Working with President Trump, working with his team as possible, sovereign nation to sovereign nation, that’s what I’m pursuing.
Kapelos: Do you plan to renegotiate the Canada-U.S-Mexico free trade agreement, USMCA? Can you trust him as a partner?
Carney: We’ll see about the sequencing. I think the revealed preference of the U.S. is working on some of these sectoral aspects before broader trade deals. It is an advantage to us that USMCA exists. It is not right that it’s being violated, but it is still an advantage that it exists, and we intend to make the most of our advantages in these negotiations.
Kapelos: Do you trust him?
Carney: I will work with him and negotiate with him, yeah.
Kapelos: Do you trust him?
Carney: Look, my answer is my answer.
Kapelos: Okay, I’ll leave it on that note, prime minister, I appreciate it very much. Thank you for all your time.
Carney: Thank you. Thanks.
Writer & Producer, Ottawa News Bureau, CTV News
